90 day detention without trial: what the polls really say

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I’d been puzzled by the (numerous!) comments by Labour about how popular their plans to lock people up without trial for 90 days were. My post bag has been pretty 50-50 on the issue – and this is even despite me having gone forth with all sorts of media coverage standing in for our Shadow Home Secretary Mark Oaten – who’s been ill.

I know – you need to take with a pinch of salt what your postbag (real or virtual) tells you as it’s a self-selecting sample. But normally people are much happier to tell you they disagree with you than they agree!

Enlightenment comes with Saturday’s Guardian and a proper poll by a proper company. Not one of The Sun’s phone in polls – but a full opinion poll by ICM.

And the verdict? 18% think 28 days detention without trial is too long; another 28% think 28 days is about right. That makes 46% supporting 28 days or less. So much for overwhelming support for 90 days! It’s only a thin majority in favour of Labour’s position.

So – that makes my post bag make a bit more sense after all! For me, it is a very important point of principle which I’d have stood by and argued my ground on regardless of the polls – but I will admit it’s nice to see evidence that there are rather more people with me and other than Blair and The Sun would have you believe…

(There’s a great piece taking apart The Sun’s claims on Tim Ireland’s blog. And if you’re wondering about the YouGov poll sometimes quoted – well, that presented as fact the police’s claims that they need 3 months to investigate people before charging them. But the whole debate has been about whether or not this is true!)

Being British

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Keynes Forum where I have been invited to speak on ‘Does Britishness need to be Redefined?’. Rather than recount – feel free to read my conference speech which was on very similar lines and is up on my website.

North London Hospice

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I hold my surgery in Wood Green, but have decided that the vote on climate change (a private members’ bill) is so important that I will have to leave surgery to make sure that the Bill goes through to its next stage. The show of numbers (mainly on the Lib Dem benches) meant that the Tories decided not to divide the House and no vote was actually taken because it was quite obvious that it would pass anyway. What the Tories did that was totally unacceptable in my view was talk out the second bill on environmentally friendly energy policies. Defeating something where there’s a debate and the vote goes that way is one thing – but just talking and talking until something has to fall when time runs out is something else. I think the practise should be banned as it subverts the course of democracy. I know it’s gone on since the beginning of time – but it is wrong!

Then I rush back to go to the North London Hospice. What a fantastic organisation delivering a fantastic service. The NHS could truly take some lessons. The big issue for them, needless to say, is funding. So much still comes from donations. It provides a service that the state appears not to bother with most of the time and when it does it is crude, nasty and undignified. Should this really be left to donations to sort out? I left the Hospice really heartened because the people involved are so committed, so dedicated and the service so good – that it gave me hope!

Terror Bill

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On Thursday I was absolutely determined to get called in the Third Reading Debate on the Terror Bill as I wanted very much to get what my consultation with local Muslims had delivered onto the record.

The Chamber was relatively and eerily empty by comparison with the high drama of Wednesday’s votes – and so I got my chance after about the first four hours of bobbing up and down at the end of every speech.

I made two basic points: the first was to relate back the results of the consultation. The Prime Minister at PMQs (Prime Minster’s Question Time) had asserted that Muslims did not want to be associated with being against this Bill – and the inference was that everything with them was therefore hunky-dory. Well – it clearly wasn’t so simple and I read out the Secretary of the Mosque’s email to me as it makes moving reading.

There was no division at the end of the debate. Basically – the Government’s defeat yesterday means that the outstanding issues over ‘glorification’ and the definition of ‘terrorism’ will have to be sorted in the Lords. Now the aftermath of the Government defeat is the running news story. From what I can make out listening to John Reid – it was Parliament that got it wrong; Tony Blair is right. That statement appalled me. The democratic duty of Parliament and the will of Parliament were clear.

In the evening I had invited, with the help of Merel Ece, key members of the Turkish, Turkish Kurdish and Turkish Cypriot communities in to discuss informally with me the key issues for their communities. Overwhelmingly – it is education. Of course there is concern about Cyprus, minority rights in Turkey and autonomy of some sort for the Kurds – but it is here in this country that the main thrust of their problems lie. The attainment record in our schools is extraordinarily low – and relatively little seems to be being done, although some good projects are happening (at least one here in Haringey) but there is no coordination of best practise. There is clearly also a problem with the Home Office in terms of visas for students. The other issue that stood out was the lack of recognition for the Alevi – a faith and a culture but not a race.

So now I feel I have put faces to names and issues and it was a really interesting couple of hours. Simon Hughes MP also popped in to give a little troll through Liberal Democracy and our position on the international issues – which was really appreciated.

Government defeated over detention without trial for 90 days

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It was weird! Having been at the meeting with Charles Clarke on Monday – to then see how the changes from what he said to me at our meeting in the morning (willingness to compromise), rolled through the day and evening into 90 days or be damned!

I guess Tony B must have been up to his old ‘trust me I’m Tony’ – and I know what’s best and I am going to over-rule my Home Secretary. Brinkmanship and bravura – but Tony doesn’t have the majority he had before the election.

Prime Minister’s Questions on Wednesday were excruciating I thought. Clarke hung out to dry by the Prime Minister’s determination to ‘do what’s right’. As if we who stood up against the sabre rattling do not believe we are right. And how much harder is it to stand up in the face of fears of terrorist attack to protect, within reason, our civil liberties and rights. I took huge exception to Blair calling any who opposed his view ‘woefully complacent.’ We are not. In fact, I have no doubt that terrorists will try and are trying to strike again. But it is not the 90 days that will stop them or disrupt them. And how dare Blair use such bullying and sleazy tactics to try and do his usual steamroller. He even descended into trying to say that if there was another terrorist attack and he didn’t have his 90 days – all who stood against him would be to blame. Shameful!

And he also said that the Muslim community – the community most vulnerable to the sharp end of these new laws – were perfectly happy with his proposals. Well I asked the Secretary of the Wightman Road Mosque (which is just across the border in Tottenham but which serves both Hornsey & Wood Green and Tottenham) as to their views on the legislation. Charles Clarke had challenged us to do on the floor of the Commons in the Committee Stage of the debate last week. I put a few sample views here:

From the Secretary of the Wightman Mosque and London Islamic Cultural Society:

Dear Lynne
Eid greetings to you and all your colleagues from London Islamic Cultural Society.

I hope that you are keeping well and I apologise for the delay in getting back to you in relation to the Anti Terror Bill currently being debated.

Having discussed with quite a few members the general feeling/concern is:

we do not agree with increasing the detention period from 14 to 90 days

there is concern about methods used to interrogate suspects – many have been released without charge and are suffering mental health problems following their detention – these are innocent individuals. Even serial murders have rights!

we [UK] have been subjected to terrorism before where areas of the UK were bombed including MPs but at no time did the government find it necessary to bring in such radical laws – why?

The Muslim community feel very vulnerable the general feeling is that these attempts by Tony Blair is to undermine our civil rights and that this type of law is condemned by UK & US as being ‘undemocratic’, ‘illegal’, ‘inhumane’ when adopted by other countries – but strangely when used by themselves it is ‘protecting the country’ It reeks of double standards.

Lynne – please understand that we in no way agree with misguided individuals compromising our safety. No! This is totally unislamic, but you have to understand that our Muslim community are scared and concerned for the safety of their children and families.

These laws prohibit even the law abiding families knowing what is happening to their loved ones. Our worry is that the unfairness of the actions will give rise to more and more people feeling trapped, alienated, seeing the bias, feeling discriminated against and we in community groups being less able to ‘include’ or ‘reach’ these individuals.

I also asked a local Imam to consult with the congregation:

I spoke to the Mosque congregation today and a few times before and this is the conclusion of their views:

I couldn’t find a single person in the congregation who supported the proposed legislation. They felt this legislation fundamentally violated their human rights and cut through the civil liberties.

They felt directly under threat and feared that they would be the target and victims of this legislation.

They felt if some one is held for 90 days, it amounts to a sentence and if the person is then not charged and released, the consequence of this detention would have been a total destruction of career, business, family, persons and social life.

They felt the government is going down the same route as France where some legislation have alienated young people further and the result is now visible in the streets of France in the forms of riots.

They felt that this kind of legislations would breed more terrorism and not counter it.

They felt that the government is sleep walking into clash of cultures and civilization.

They felt aggrieved and let down by the government

The younger members were angry and the older members where apprehensive.

So I don’t know who Tony Blair has been talking to – but that is what our local Muslim community gives as a snapshot view.

And as to the rest of my postbag on this issue – 50/50 for and against.

The rest of the debate was high drama indeed. I had to go and do Simon Mayo’s live programme on the debate. The Labour MP on the show was citing Andy Hayman (who provided a letter of the ‘evidence’ of need of 90 days) using the ricin incident as evidence of the need to have such an extended period of detention. Well he shouldn’t have started with me as the ricin incident happened here in Hornsey & Wood Green and was a mess in my view from start to finish. The substance wasn’t ricin. The people charged were acquitted. And as for the guy who skipped to Algeria – he was actually released after only two days – so even under current laws, the police could have kept him in detention for much longer if they’d wanted to. And he could have anyway been charged with acts preparatory to terrorism.

So – if that is the basis on which the Met is arguing to take away our rights – then it is unacceptable basis for evidence. And – quite frankly – the police do not always get it right. They didn’t when they shot Jean Charles de Menezes, they didn’t with the Birmingham Six and the Guildford Four and even Sir Ian Blair got his information wrong after the shooting and we have yet to hear from the Independent Police Complaints Commission as to the findings from their investigation – an investigation which the Met tried to block.

As we went into the vote on extending detention without trial to 90 days we all thought it was too close to call. The silence fell as the tellers stood before the Speaker – and eerily into that silence was announced the first defeat of the Labour government since ’97. A strangely muted cheer from the winners. And then straight into the vote on 28 days – which was won.

So – wounded – the Government retired to sort out what line it would take on the momentous defeat. And a real moment for democracy when all sides of the House came together to stand up for what we all believe was right as the balance between our freedoms and our safety.

It’s not over. It goes to the Lords where the Lib Dems are determined to put safety locks on the numbers that can be held beyond 14 to the 28 days as well as more judicial intervention. For us 28 was a compromise – and we still need more safeguards in place. We will see how it fares in the Lords – and of course – there are still unacceptable parts of the Bill around ‘glorification’ and the definition of ‘terrorism’.

Bye bye to dodgy questionnaire

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So – Labour have axed the stupidly biased “questionnaire” about detention without trial from their website.

This is what Charles Clarke said in his climb-down email:

“I would like to apologise for the questionnaire which was attached to the message that I sent out to party supporters on Friday. It was not intended to gauge public opinion but to start a political debate around the proposals currently being debated in Parliament. Many people have raised with me perfectly valid concerns about how the questions were drafted. I can only say that I share those concerns and give my assurance that questions of this type will not used in the future.”

He must have really got it in the neck to have had to make such a public u-turn! (Though, grudgingly! – some respect for him being willing to admit it was a blunder).

Airsoft update

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First off – several people have asked who my staff talked to in the airsoft community who said they’d be willing to go along with the ends of airsoft guns being painted – e.g. dayglow orange. It was the people at www.saveairsoft.org

Second – I take the point that guns operating above 1 joule aren’t automatically lethal – and there’s clearly a lot of debate about the merits of 1 joule safety limit versus other limits. I’m listening carefully to these views and also passing them on to my colleague John Thurso who’s leading for the Lib Dems on this issue.

LIB DEMS COME TO THE RESCUE OVER MUSWELL HILL CHRISTMAS LIGHTS

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Muswell Hill is to enjoy festive cheer this Christmas after Lib Dem councillors in Muswell Hill, Fortis Green and Alexandra wards secured the funding for Christmas lights for Muswell Hill. The move follows the Labour Council’s refusal to pay for new ones earlier in the year..

The fiasco started in July when the Area Assembly heard assurances from Haringey Council that they would be putting up lights on Muswell Hill Broadway following pressure from Lib Dems and local residents.

The lights were checked by the Council in August and viewed to be safe.However when contractors retested the lights last month they found them to be unsafe. Haringey Council added that there were no funds to purchase new ones.

Lib Dem councillors, determined to see Christmas lights on the Broadway this year, offered a solution. They have asked secured money from the Area Assembly budget to pay for new lights.

Cllr Engert (Muswell Hill) comments:

“I am delighted that we will now have lights in Muswell Hill.I am sure that the shops and the local community will benefit from festive customers these lights will bring.”

Cllr Martin Newton (Fortis Green) adds:

“It’s great the Council has agreed to stop playing Scrooge over the lights. I am delighted for the residents and traders that we have found a way around this ‘can’t do’ attitude the Council seems to have.”

DISMISSED MEMBERS OF THE BRIDGE NDC BOARD WIN THEIR APPLICATION FOR A JUDICIAL REVIEW

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Two former members of The Bridge NDC (New Deal for Communities) Board have been granted permission for a Judicial Review in the Appeals Court against the Board, Haringey Council and the Government Office for London.

The former Board members were Chair and Vice Chair of the Board’s Finance & Performance Scrutiny Panel. Their dismissal led to a signed petition by 600 local residents to the Deputy Prime Minister, Mr John Prescott, asking for an independent investigation and for an independent forensic accountant to investigate The Bridge NDC finances.

Liberal Democrat councillor Wayne Hoban, who has been looking into these allegations since being contacted by local residents concerned about the way in which the £50 million NDC project is being managed, has asked for copies of the audited accounts and auditor’s notes for the 5 year period (2001 / 2005) that the project has been running, but has been informed that they are not available.

Cllr Hoban states,

“It is incredible that this £50 million project should not have Annual Audited Accounts which can be inspected to ensure that the money is being spent appropriately.This shows that the concerns expressed by residents and the local community about the way in which this multi-million pound project has been managed to date are well founded, and requires immediate action. In view of the non-availability of audited accounts for the first five years of the project, nothing less than an independent forensic auditor’s investigation of The Bridge NDC accounts will do.”

PRIORY PARK – LIB DEMS ANGER OVER CONSULTATION FIASCO

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Lib Dem councillors are fuming after Haringey Council claimed that the consultation for the controversial skate park in Priory Park had produced results that were ‘accurately reflected in the conclusions’.

The comments come in response to a letter by Muswell Hill ward councillors raising their concerns over the consultation after they received numerous letters from residents living around the park who are dismayed at the lack of consultation.

The skate park has been met with a great deal of opposition from local residents since the plans were proposed. Lib Dems supported a new skate park in the west of the borough as long as there was full consultation with residents. However this did not happen.

Muswell Hill and Lib Dem councillor Gail Engert says Haringey Council must accept they have made fundamental mistakes over this consultation and address them before they can move to the next stage.

Cllr Engert comments:

“The handling of this issue has been completely unsatisfactory by Haringey Council. Once again they have shown neither the ability or the desire to listen to concerns from local residents and park users.

“We will maintain the pressure and scrutinise Haringey Council at every stage of this development to ensure that all local people have their views heard.”