0 thoughts on “Wheel clamp ban survey

  1. You kindly pointed out with “Very little bad press” you must try to take these matters in context! You provided almost a dozen newspaper articles dating back 5 years (I’m sure you could probably find a few more if you tried) But your missing the point. How many vehicles have been clamped in that period. (I could tell you) You realise and know that the media hates my company and everyone else who operates a clamping company decent or not. Also you may ask yourself how many court cases have we had! Its easy to find out! How many vehicles have we towed away! The answer is very little! How many did we released free from charge and slap the wrists. No one in the press mentions that. I issue 105,000 permits free of charge ever December all of these people are now worried that the dark days will return. How many proprietors are pleased to pay £30 per sign per year for our service and keep trespassers off. Look at the bigger picture. How many sites do we cover and how many towns and cities do we operate in! Then consider that we guarantee in our contract ‘that using are signage alone we will eliminate 95% of your unwanted guests’.

    As far as myself is concerned I’m not righteous, I ain’t selling bibles here. I’m simply trying to warn you of the severe consequences of the alternatives and you jump down my thought. If you looked carefully in the same article I called myself and I quote “Fascist, Marxist, a radical independent, entrepreneur, money grabbing moron. It doesn’t matter what you want to call me, because its all a little true” I also pointed out in a past posting. “That I can cast my mind back to 1989 when I formed my company. I knew it would be a winner because I was the biggest hypocrite in the world. I parked just about ever where and simply walked off.”  On another occasion I quipped “Lets see sense and better the devil you know” Furthermore I did point out ; “We too make mistakes, of course we do! we are not definitely whiter than white, I went on “I do however warn that I also doubt these days what is printed especially in the Daily Mail I can read between the lines and I know that the press either lies or exaggerates, but you do hear some horror stories I agree, some that is beyond beggars belief. Fortunately there are plenty good guys out there and lots of them, but their work never receives accolade, there again they don’t expect it.

    So I’m off to find a halo built for a very repentant sinner, if there is such a thing and I will retire from this post if you wish. I do have myself many an alternative in the pot and likewise there are many others who’ll replace me.

    I will be participating in an allegiance with others and slap a judicial revue on the government the moment they act. You are very much unaware of how many Mps actual oppose this proposition and acknowledge how poorly this matter has been handled. You don’t know the size of the pressure groups either but there again some people tend to ignore warnings! and thats what this is all about. I was trying to help you understand a few things by providing valuable inside trader information and If you read my postings I tried to be very sincere and not simply save my company.

    Signing off

    Trev

  2. Steveod

    I think you may be missing the point. What I asked was if that child camped on your land without asking would you not want to know why they could not ask you if that was ok to camp on your land.

    I run a pub, I want only my patrons to use the car park. The car park must be open for them to use it. I don’t have time to stand out front checking each motorist. I was quoted £6,000 to errect a barrier. This is money I don’t have. I earn a modest amount but not huge (probably less than you do) and if people start to park who are not patrons and my patrons can’t get in and go elsewhere, then I lose serious amounts of money.

    To be honest I’m scared. I have actually never had to clamp a car but I have had to tow them. I’ve had people dump cars on my land that have run beyond their tax date (police won’t move them because it’s private land). I’ve had old vans abandoned (again police do nothing). I have to tow these vehicles at my expence or I lose customers because they can’t get parked.

    So far Lynne Featherstone has not come up with a reasonnable suggestion for getting rid of unwanted vehicles

  3. @ Trevor

    One of the incidents quoted for your company was a couple of weeks ago after the ban was announced. Its all very well to say some of the reported cases, which I notice you did not deny, happened some time ago but the facts of some are horrendous and typify the disgusting and nasty practice that clamping has become. Clamping a pharmacy driver delivering cancer medication. “Scum” would be one well deserved word for someone who would do this. Clamping someone for visiting shops in the wrong order. Outrageous greed and theft. Clamping people for being 12 seconds late and for not having permits when they are clearly displayed. Shame oh shame. I know you have signed off but with horrific incidents like this from a company of someone who claims he is a good guy, it is all to obvious to see why the legalised extortion of clamping is facing its final days.

    Regards judicial revue it is “review” by the way I am sure the government will not lose any sleep. It has more than enough arguments to easily see off any such challenge. regards MPs sympathetic to clamping all you have shown so far is the ex Labour Minister who has been embarrassed by his legislation being rubbished. The move has been welcomed by MPs across the board as a quick Google reveals. Anyone who thinks this measure will not sail through the House of Commons is living in Clampers Cuckoo Land. Nor will the Lords offer any chance of rescue.

  4. According to this thread on PePiPoo National Clamps were happy to clamp a car displaying a blue disabled badge, an unlawful act in breach of their licence:

    http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=38785&st=0

    Clearly a company that is absolutely no better than the thugs and extortionists that plague the whole industry, despite the attempts by Trevor to paint himself as a kind of latter-day Robin Hood.

    Note the complete and disgraceful lack of response by the SIA. And clampers expect us to believe that tighter regulation would work.

    Nationa Clamps, We care! (yeah right – about making money)

  5. According to this report National Clamps, Trevor’s company, clamped a couple when they knew that they had a permit and then Trevor goes on to make aggressive comments refusing to refund the money:

    http://www.lep.co.uk/news/couple_query_quick_clamp_tactics_1_92083

    Shows that the argument that clamping is about parking management is a load of bullshit. Just a way of milking people for money, eh Trev, as your ignorant comments in this article show. How can people that you know have a valid permit ever be a legitimate target for clamping, except if the whole purpose is money making?

  6. Anyway, what people dont realise that a clamp is really pointless and can easily be defeated with a bit of tenacity.
    1. you could just tow your own car away – as it is your own property it is your legal right to do this – if the clampers don’t want this then they should remove it – or you can take the clamp to the nearest police station and leave it there undamaged
    2. You could just sit in your car day and night to prevent them towing – even call the press – I am sure the landowner wouldnt want that publicity
    3. you can remove the clamp yourself by removing your wheel – plenty of instructions on Internet to do this – then leave the clamp at place where your car was or take it to police station
    4. you can remove the clamp yourself by cutting the padlock making sure not to damage the clamp itself, go to B&Q buy a new similar padlock and drop the clamp and padlock off at the nearest police station. The clampers will have you belive this will be a criminal offence – but as long as the clamp itself is not damaged and you have replaced the lock, I don’t think the police nor CPS would even think of wasting time and money taking this to court and it would not be in the public interest anyway. It would then be up to the clampers to take it to court as a civil matter and as the lock had been replaced there would be loss or damages to sue for. ( not legal advise obviously but do a bit of research yourself )

    Some interesting things that could be tried:
    1. put 4 of your own clamps when you park, then they cant clamp, haha, wish someone would do this
    2. put up your own T&Cs in your car window stating that any items attached, placed in or on, will be treated as an unsolicited “gift” and will become your property if not removed in 1 hour of being placed or attached to your property. You can then remove the clamp. As there are 2 sets of conflicting CONTRACT terms and conditions, you are asserting the clamp is now yours under civil law and it will be up to the civil court to determine which set of t&cs are to be enforced and valid ( the clampers may be found to be the first set of t&cs and so be valid with your contract being outside the scope of this first contract ) but the civil court would need to make this judgement and then award costs according to the tort law of tresspass – the clampers would have to prove exactly which losses they have suffered – would be interesting to see if this worked – and would the clampers take it all the way to civil court? Doubtful especially if a couple of days later you just drop the clamp off at a police station , notify the clampers where it is, and laugh.

  7. To follow on from Steveod

    Or you could just park your car legally were it is allowed to be parked. A far easier solution.
    Steveod clearly believes in trespassing.

  8. @Martin

    Nope, don’t believe in trespassing per se. If you have land where people want to park and you don’t want them to park there, put up a gate or a barrier. Simple, then they can’t park there. If you want to make a bit of money from your land, I have no problem with that, put up a barrier and charge people to come in and out of the property and use the land for parking. If people don’t want to pay then they can’t park on the property – again simple. And its no good complaining that you don’t have money for barriers etc – thats your problem – either put up or shut up. You dont hear farmers complaining they dont have money to put up fences etc, and then resorting to extortion and theft to get their own way. What I don’t approve of is a bunch of cowboys, thieves, fraudsters and scumbags being used to extort huge amounts of money
    for a situation that is perfectly capable of being properly managed to land owners – especially when they use underhand and unlawful means of forcing payment such as clamping and towing ( trespass and theft of an person’s property in my opinion ). But of course this is not what you want, because then you have no method of extorting and fleecing the public for hundreds of pounds a time.

  9. @SteveOD

    Not all people who clamp charge 100’s of pounds. Some are quite reasonable. What you wrote seemed to suggest purposly annoying landowners. Maybe I read it wrong.

    I’m trying to be reasonable with everyone, including yourself. I only want to know what the government suggest landowners can do with vehcles that have obviously been dumped on our properties or people using our properties when their tax has run out. I’m really not interested in clamping, as I’ve said I’ve never had to clamp. But the government haven’t really thought this through as there seems little in favour of landowners.

  10. If the vehicle has been abandoned get the Council to remove it, which they are happy to do. If it has no tax the DVLA will be happy to get its contractors to tow it for you.

    Simples. But somehow I know that this easy explanation will start off another round of what ifs and nonsense scenarios. Clamping is finished, due to the gross excesses committed by clampers. Anybody not connected will support the move wholeheartedly. Get over it and get on with your lives.

  11. Now that’s a good question VOR.

    Trevor or one of the other badly done too parking service company owners – how many of you exactly can still access the DVLA under your original company names with “a reasonable cause statement” to extact registered keepers details now ?

  12. @Martin

    what do you call reasonable for not paying £1 to £5. I would call £5 reasonable at the most, not £50,£100,£150,£300 as most of these scumbags extort.

    And as VoR states, parking on private land and abandoning vehicles are totally seperate things. If the vehicle is abandoned then the council must remove it and try track down the owner/registered keeper and take action against them. If a car was left abandoned on my land, i would hook it up and place it outside of my property after a few days.

  13. I can’t seem to find (on this site ) My Olympics 2012 warning, My ‘why ticketing doesn’t work’ and my predictions ‘Car park owner killed by thugs warning’ etc Can anyone help and before I get a barrage of flack please hold the horses. This is for a very large housing / care home association that is particular worried for the elderly and are worried about the possibility of Gypsy travellers on their sites again. Ps with have worked in allegiance with LCC

    Please repost them if you have a copy! In exchange and a good will gesture, I will publicise the new fees for moving from ‘EDI’ The Current DVLA Structure to the newly introduced Elise format as per request of FIO Man!

    Trev

  14. This is the earlier post

    Author: Trevor
    Comment:
    Fascist, Marxist, a radical independent, entrepreneur, money grabbing moron. It doesn’t matter what you want to call me, because its all a little true. But right now we all have to be realistic. Put down the guns and ammo and see through the smoke and gun fire. I’ve always said “If you don’t like what I do I’ll soon go bust” The truth of the matter is I won’t, because there is always someone who roles the dice and takes the chance. Everyone of my signs carries an unequivocal message. ‘Warning’ parking your vehicle without permission from the proprietor or not abiding by the mitigating circumstances below will result in your car being immobilised.

    If only those that take a chance simply asked first, 95% of the proprietors would say yes or no but in a responsible manner. Its when you don’t abide by the rules by parking in Permit Holders spaces, parking on Hatched or Yellow lines, Disabled bays overstaying your welcome etc etc that really annoys them and drives them to despair.

    Many years ago I had several 50 pence stalls on Markets around the North west and each stall lost around £20 per day through theft. I simply placed a sign for all to see, Please do not risk being arrested for theft!’ I went on ‘If your need is so bad then the management has the authority to give you the said item, Simply ask!’. I saved £100 per day £30,000 per year. The moral of the story remove the taking of the chance, that stolen apple, make people aware of the error of their ways and sense will prevail. below is an extract which has been forwarded on to me from what is seemingly is a pensioner

    “I like many others let out a loud cheer when I heard the news ‘Wheel Clamping is to be banned’ Brilliant I thought! but I’m now having second thoughts! I wouldn’t park where I shouldn’t anyway, I never have and I’ve been driving over 50 years I’ve never had a parking ticket either. I did get done for 42 Mph in a 30 but at my age this was a result and a claim to fame, something to talk about if the truth be-known. I park at my hospital in disabled spaces, and at the Tesco and just about everywhere else. It wasn’t like this 10 years ago I’ll tell you, I’ve had many a scuffle. Now either the citizens of the UK have swallowed an overdose of manners or its them clampers that have brought some sort of law and order. Its probably the only thing that works. Who doesn’t want ID cards? criminals! who doesn’t want restrictions on border controls? Immigrants? You get my point!

    I had to laugh I wanted to use it be he wouldn’t allow me so it must remains anon. The fact is and remains are we suffering from a dose of propaganda

    If not then there are those who seek a ban are:

    1.Aggrieved at being clamped and feel unfairly treated
    2.An MP who is fed up of the complaints and can’t see a way forward.
    3.An allied industry who will benefit from this fall from grace
    4.The Media who benefits from the feeding frenzy
    5.The AA or the RAC Vote hunting; who try to represent the member motorist
    6.Those that are infuriated by the horror stories inflamed by the press.

    OK lets put me on the Spot, “Mr Whitehouse would you clamp an ambulance? The answer is not that easy and its horses for courses? Well lets imagine the worst scenario! A driver and his assistant park on a private car park in someone’s on some ones land and go across the road to the chippy, “Just where do you draw the line”. Is he a paramedic, is the vehicle rapid response, is he causing duress? where he’s parked, i.e outside a fire exit. The press in all fairness, listen to what you have to say an usually print your response in the last third of the editorial. The Headline is always going to be; Ambulance Clamped whilst on Duty”. The guys were buying lunch for god’s sake, so were they on duty, who was in the back , No-one because they wouldn’t have stopped. Where they on their dinner hour, of course.Have they a right to park there have they asked?

    We have the Olympics 2 years away. We’ll have multiples of tourists coming from Holland, Germany, Sweden, Denmark, Poland, Estonia etc on ferry’s through the chunnel. Will ticketing deter, no way! Can you chase foreign drivers with foreign registrations numbers. No! Will rental companies surrender details the answer is they don’t now and won’t in the future. Who cares. Is the threat of clamping provide good car management any better than ticketing?

    The police are to be granted more powers, What! You can’t get them to turn up for burglary these days or a simple petty mugging. I haven’t got the figures but massive amounts of crime go unreported because its deemed a waste of time. I’m not slagging the police, their so underfunded they can’t make ends meet. I’m also pointing out that more and more they are turning to civilians for help. You think the police have tow trucks well they don’t they use sub contractors and that’s what your trying to ban. I don’t tow I’ve mentioned that, I hate tickets and ticketing if any of these get bad press it is described by all as the ‘Private Clamping Companies, so we even guilty when we are not responsible. I am a self proclaimed good guy. There are many within the industry who turn to me for help, They see me as being one of the oldest, one of the largest, and most reputable with very little bad press, but there are many others of similar standing. I could pick them for you, given the chance.

    Finally I’m going make a few predictive headlines. Car Park Owner beaten to deaf by thugs. Stabbed to death over Parking. Police Ignores calls for help on car park. Shot to death over Parking ticket. Man commits suicide over parking penalty. ‘cheaper to park on roads than private land’

    Melodramatic we’ll see! Theirs more but I wonder whose listening and who cares

    Trevor Whitehouse
    Chairman and Founder National Clamps 1989 ~ Present Day

  15. @Trev

    “This is for a very large housing / care home association that is particular worried for the elderly and are worried about the possibility of Gypsy travellers on their sites again.”

    I am sure that the Gypsy travellers wouldnt just cut off the clamps and then deny they did it. Who is going to prove who did it. Clamping is just an excuse to fleece the normally law abiding citizen and save land owners from expense of putting up barriers. Tell you what, go back to the housing association, and tell them that instead of them paying the PPC a monthly or annual amount, they take out a loan to put up barriers instead. Problem solved.

  16. Reading these posts it is clear that their is so much incorrect information out there being posted by people on this forum, let me enlighten you to a few of the FACTS:

    1. If a car is abandoned on your property, if it is ‘taxed’, you can tow it away to a pound and notify the Police so if the owner comes looking for it, there is a record of where it has gone and why.

    2. If a car is abandoned on your property and it is ‘untaxed’ you can tow it away and scrap it. I would recommend notifying the police again so there is a record of it.

    3. If it is PRIVATE LAND the Council WILL NOT remove the vehicle, they will only remove abandoned vehicles on the Public Highway.

    4. If you park on private land and are clamped or towed away, regardless of whether you are dealt with by a responsible company or a ‘rogue’, you have no one to blame except yourself in the same way if you park on a Red Route, Double Yellow Line, Disabled Bay etc – if you are TOO LAZY or IGNORANT to look around you for the Parking Signs (and they are always there regardless of size), then you are stupid.

    5. Only the LAZY and IGNORANT will support this bill, because it will ensure that all land in England will become a Free for All to park wherever they please with no fear of punishment – Lynne, this is the WORSE idea I have ever seen an MP try and put into effect with no regard.

    I have been calling round every local and national Managing Agents across England in relation to this and NOT ONE OF THEM were ever consulted on this matter and have NOT HAD AN OPPORTUNITY to voice their concerns about the effect this will have on Leaseholders/Residents that live in Flats across the Country… so before you put a BAN IN PLACE – PLEASE SPEAK TO THE PEOPLE THAT WILL INCUR ALL THE COSTS and take action against those breaking the law and not those trying to live a NORMAL LIVE!

  17. @Natalie

    your comment
    “5. Only the LAZY and IGNORANT will support this bill, because it will ensure that all land in England will become a Free for All to park wherever they please with no fear of punishment – Lynne, this is the WORSE idea I have ever seen an MP try and put into effect with no regard.”

    typical scare mongering – pathetic and used by people like you to fleece other people out of money because too scared to go get a proper job. Go ANYWHERE in Europe and you will not see so many pay-and-display, offstreet parking,etc. People can park just about anywhere without paying and there has been no arnachy, chaos, fall of government brought about by people parking everywhere. Wake up, your days of fleecing us the public are gone. Go get a proper job.

  18. @Steve OD

    Nowhere in Natalie’s text does she state that she “Fleeces the public.”
    She is pointing out that people should not park where they like.
    I don’t know where in Europe you have been but France, Spain, Italy and Ireland all have pay & display and tow away areas as well.

    The premise of this bill can only work if the police and councils powers increase to remove unwanted vehicles from private land owners. Barriers will not work as 1. they will scare picturesque areas, and 2. It will not deter people from parking on shop owners, pub owners ect. land and not using their facilities.

    Natilie does not even sound in support of wheel clamping, she, like myself, wants councils to remove these unwanted vehicles at their expence and not a land owners expence. I mean if a small business has only 3 spaces and there all ocupied by abandonned vehicles that will effect the business, surely you’d agree with that.

  19. @Bill
    “She is pointing out that people should not park where they like.
    I don’t know where in Europe you have been but France, Spain, Italy and Ireland all have pay & display and tow away areas as well.”
    They have not even 10% the level that the UK does. The councils and private land owners in the UK are all just interested in making a quick buck. It has nothing to do with controlling parking. If you want to control parking, put up a barrier.

    “Barriers will not work as 1. they will scare picturesque areas, and 2. It will not deter people from parking on shop owners, pub owners ect. land and not using their facilities.”
    Rubbish. Picturesqe areas are already scarred by the simple existense of any car parking area. Do away with the car park totally then or put up a nice looking wooden barrier system. If land owners don’t want people to use their parking, again they have the simple remedy as mentioned above twice, instead of trying to earn money in some cases all the way to extorting the money by trying to charge £200-£300.

  20. @SteveOD
    Ok I take your point on those issues. I do think that it is a bit much that if you own land you have to go to these measures to keep people off, when these people should know mnot to go on private property whether there’s a barrier or not. Why should the landowner have to pay?
    I would like to hear your thoughts on shops, pubs ect who have, say, 3 parking spaces (not a lot) and they only want people who are using their facilities to park there, and not “chancers” who park and go somewhere else, never to enter the premises they’re parked on. If that premises has only a few spaces then it isn’t worth putting up a barrier system, is it?

    At the end of the day if certain clamping companies didn’t go to extemes with charges in excess of £15 release fees and car owners parked where is was justified to do so, then we all would not have a problem.

    When I park, I park in an official car park open to the general public and I pay. I feel it only fare to whoever own’s the land (plus I feel my car is safer there). Doing it this way, I have never had any of my cars damaged, towed or clamped in my 30+ years of driving (and I do a lot of mileage in a year). So why do others choose to park where they are simply not wanted? If I can do it so can everyone else.

  21. how is it the SIA and or Home Office allow clamping in Northern Ireland and on Local Authority land??

    This is what the SIA’s website states:
    Wheel Clamping Ban
    On 17 August 2010, the Government announced that wheel clamping on private land will be banned in England and Wales. The ban will be introduced in the Freedom Bill in November and will come into force after Royal Assent.

    Until the ban is in place, the current law applies: any person undertaking the licensable activities of a vehicle immobiliser must hold and display a valid SIA licence.

    Proposed Changes
    The following information is subject to Parliament passing the Bill.

    The ban will not apply to Northern Ireland.
    The ban will apply to private land only. It will not change existing traffic enforcement by local authorities and police on highways.
    The ban will also apply to towing away and all other forms of vehicle immobilisation. Once implemented, anyone who clamps (or otherwise immobilises) a vehicle or tows it away on private land without specific legal authority to do so will face criminal proceedings or civil sanctions.
    The ban will apply whether or not there is the intention to charge a release fee, though individuals will still be able to clamp or block in their own vehicles (for example, to prevent theft) and bailiffs with the lawful right to do so will still be able to clamp vehicles in lieu of outstanding debts.
    There will be very limited circumstances in which authority to remove vehicles will remain but this will only be where there is specific statutory authority. For example, the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Authority (DVLA) will retain the legal authority to clamp or tow away vehicles as part of its work in combating evasion of Vehicle Excise Duty. The Vehicle and Operator Services Authority has similar powers to prevent the use of un-roadworthy vehicles on the road.

    The SIA currently licenses any individual immobilising vehicles on private land in England, Wales and Northern Ireland with a view to charging a release fee. It also requires the licensing of anyone involved in blocking in or towing away vehicles for the same purpose, and of those who collect the fee. This activity will cease in England and Wales once the ban is in place.

  22. Why has this been allowed to continue in Northern Ireland, when these companies h ave been recognised as criminals elsewhere in the UK ?

  23. To ban wheel clamping and towing on private land is absolutely ludicrous “when drivers are caught for no insurance or drink driving and many other offences they are banned from driving” so would it be reasonable to suggest a complete ban on driving instead because of this minority of abusers. I think not! So why then should we accept a complete ban on wheel clamping and towing from private land, based on a minority group of clampers who have been allowed to abuse their position. And lets face it the cowboys of the industry are the minority. Many of the stories of big bully clampers marching people to cash points or charging exorbitant fees are years old. “As for the current ones” of coarse they make the papers, who wants to read about the polite 5ft female and friendly 57 year old operatives collecting the BPA recommended clamp release fee from some driver who thought they could park on private land and get away with it. My business partner and myself are directors of controlled parking services Ltd. Although We don’t appear to be, we are a relatively small company, We have unavoidably received some good and bad press but mostly good due to the comments from the public having their say on the articles. We have achieved ISO 9001 status, become members of the British parking association approved operator scheme, have been accepted by DVLA and have access to their database, have firmly established ourselves in hertfordshire and surrounding counties, with our SIA licensed staff trained in conflict management and vehicle immobilisation we supply essential parking enforcement to businesses and private owners alike. “Yes” we do offer an alternative enforcement method by means of parking charge notices but this is not as effective as wheel clamping due to the public becoming more informed of the fact we can only invite them to disclose who was the driver at the time of the contravention not force them. Therefor wheel clamping is the preferred method by the majority of our clients. We have invested heavily in this sector and will suffer enormously if this ban is implemented and we are forced to use ticketing as our only means of parking enforcement. The other people who will suffer are all you land owners out there, if this bill is passed it leaves the door open for motorists to park on your land whenever they like and you will have no recourse, And believe me they will. I would be able to park on your driveway and when you return home to find me in your space you wouldn’t be able to do a thing about it. Cant clamp me cant tow me just ticket me, will this force me to move it, NO. Will this force me to pay the ticket, NO. And what can you do about it, NOTHING. They say the clamping ban in Scotland was successful and they have all turned to tickets, but what they failed to say is locking or blocking in and towing away wasn’t banned is still legal and this is what they turned to, Because tickets don’t work. What will we turn to if this bill is passed and people can park anywhere on private land without consent. I find it unbelievable that this proposed ban has got this far when the cowboy clamper problem could so easily be fixed. Currently all they need is a sia licence. And what rules are they required to stick to, almost none. They set their own fees, tow away when they like, often only accept cash. And why, Because they can. They don’t issue tickets they only clamp or tow, they have no need to contact DVLA for registered keeper details. For those of us who do, the only way to access dvla is to be a member of the bpa and to do this must stick to their strict code of conduct. We and many others used the bpa code of conduct even before it became compulsory for dvla access. The simple answer is for anyone to be able to immobilise or tow a vehicle on private land they must not only hold an sia licence but also be a member of the bpa, therefor having to abide by the code. Not only is becoming a member costly it also means that with the information we must supply about ourselves, aggrieved motorists are able to challenge our actions in the small claims courts. they currently would struggle to get the cowboys to court as its so hard to track them down.

  24. to Simon: rubbish. just ban them and keep them banned. You talk about being able to take the clampers to court for unlawful clamping. Firstly why should I have to waste my time doing this. Secondly, just do a google search for how many clampers hace CCJs against them and still do not pay back the money. SIA licensing is a big joke and the same with the BPA – useless – self regulation does NOT WORK – just look at at the banks!!
    Clampers are in the MAIN a bunch of thieves who have had it far too good for far too long. Goodbye to the lot of you.

  25. Maybe premature, but I think that both sides of the ‘Should they go or should they stay” have merits and will probably force even more consultation (yet again!) and the cowboys will be granted more time to exploit. Without a structure of the rights and wrongs all will once again fail. I have written a ‘A Charter for Private Parking and Enforcement, its just a stop gap which may be presented to ‘the house’ as an all party bill. So Please, for now be respectful and presume that clamping stays. Now I know that many of you want a ban but lets assume you’ve lost and you have to compromise. Please use empathy and consider the proprietor and their wishes after all; its there land not yours. This is a golden oppoutunity to have your say with influence and if you display that you still want the ban your comment will be lost.

    The contents below are copyrighted

    PRELUDE: A vehicle is to be deemed parked when it is secured, left unattended and does not display its hazard warning lights. In the event of only a majority a vehicle must be constantly supervised for no less than 10 minutes before acting upon that majority. The same ten minute warning must be given to a driver or occupants of a vehicle who are older than the age of consent to move a motor vehicle that is in contravention of parking rules before carrying out any enforcement. If children are the only occupants of the said vehicle and no parent or guardian has returned within those ten minutes then that vehicle may suffer no more than a parking ticket. A disabled driver will also suffer no more that a parking ticket if found to be in an area that is not specially designated for their use or the badge was not on display at the time of the incident.

    EVIDENCE: A vehicle will only be in direct contravention of the parking restrictions if a warning sign is visible from the vehicles parked position. These signs must be sanctioned by an Approved Trade Association (ATA), which has a DVLA accredited code of practise. Photographic evidence of the vehicle infringement must be obtained prior to the act of enforcement whilst special attention should be placed on location of signs and the offence. All photographic evidence is the property of the agency but must be disclosed in the event of a county court appeal.

    ENFORCEMENT: The proprietor depicts at which level enforcement starts. A two hour grace period must be given between a PCN, (a ticket) Vehicle Immobilisation or being towed away. Whilst performing the act of enforcement; a duty of care must be exercised at all times including a consideration to security of the vehicle and the welfare of the driver or occupants when they regain the use of the offending vehicle. The agency must adhere to the code of practise at all times and use only Sia Licensed operatives where appropriate.

    COMMUNICATIONS: All offending vehicles must be reported immediately to a focal point for all communications. These head quarters (head office, or back offices) shall remain open during normal working hours and should handle the administration of the company. They should attain and maintain a standard that is nationally recognised Such as the SIA ACS or ISO 9001 and must strive to answer all phone calls by human intervention in less than 1 minute. They shall facilitate, when required, that all vehicles will be released or returned to the guardian of the vehicle within two hours once the offer of payment as been made and accepted. After office hours ; mobile phones on divert from HQ are permitted.

    THE PENALTY: The driver of a private motor car will only attract only one penalty for one offence and will be void of escalating costs. If a ticket (PCN) or a vehicle immobilisation device is attached to the vehicle, the offence will incur a penalty of £100 and suffer £150 if it is attached to lifting gear of a tow truck or has been towed away. A PCN or ‘ticket’ attracts a 50% discount if paid within 10 working days. Debt recover fees increases by 20% per month thereafter up to a maximum of 90 days. The impound fee and overnight or fee shall not exceed 20% of the initial penalty and will be levied per twenty four hours through midnight thereafter. A Heavy goods vehicle will attract £200 if immobilised and £300 if towed and impounded. After Ninety days any vehicle in the agencies possession must be sold at public auction with permission from the DVLA and profits minus expenses will be offered to the registered keeper using recorded delivery, if unclaimed after 14 days the offer can be retracted and the matter closed. These penalties will increase every three years after the first of January 2011 and shall not exceed the rate of inflation.

    APPEALS: Appeals will be analysed and mitigating circumstances such as hardship, failure to display a relevant permit and a question of time other than the above can be ignored, but all self addressed envelopes will receive a written response. Refunds will be despatched within 10 working days on receipt of the appeal. Appeals that require further investigation; the claimant must be be advised both at the onset and of the outcome which must conclude within 20 working days. Should the aggrieved motorist still feel dissatisfied by the decision not to be refunded, then this charter may be used as evidence that a breach of contract has occurred and the plaintiff may seek a refund plus compensation from a judge in the small claims court. A member will be suspended from operations and one hundred pounds penalty per day, whilst they have an unsatisfied judgement against their name. Three judgements will invoke a permanent ban.

    THE GUARANTEE: The Chief Executive Officer of a parking enforcement agency hereby declares that references to this Private Parking Charter will be displayed prominently on all relevant correspondence and receipts alike. A copy must be readily downloadable from the company website . The material and principles contained within this charter and its use is subject to a copyright that remains the property of the Parking Enforcement Trade Association. Any attempt to alter or use any part of the transcript will be vigorously defended and compensation sort. The company will endure at all times to give honour and respect to the articles contained herein and they will ensure that the conduct of the staff, their business will only described as forthright and upstanding, the company will also forfeit all other rights in the name of this charter and will concede to the requests and demands of the executive committee on the first instance.

    Trevor Whitehouse
    Chairman: National Clamps 1989~Present Day
    President The parking Enforcement Trade Association
    Honorary Member of the institute of parking proffessionals

  26. Trevor Whitehouse you are clearly long overdue for retirement. Off you go.

    There is nothing of any merit whatsoever in what you say and every point is utterly laughable. Your ‘groundbreaking charter’ will be linked to MSE, CAG and pepipoo now and we will see what the ordinary public think. Lynne Featherstone please see the rantings of this desperate man for what they are.

    Trev what is it with you that makes you believe you can seize property and then say ‘oh but we’ll answer the phone within a minute and we will reply if someone provides an SAE – oh and we’ll show the photos if the occasional annoyed person actually takes us to small claims’! Big deal. You have been sussed, your money-making industry has gone.

    Where within your charter does the doctor/district nurse/delivery driver/taxi helping a fare into their flat/ordinary person unloading avoid one of your so-called ‘PCNs’? And what makes you think you can even call it a PCN, just because the parking industry uses the phrase ‘parking charge notice’ to confuse people. And it confuses people all right – when your arch nemesis Patrick Troy played a cameo role on Watchdog last year he couldn’t explain why and how your BPA boys-club buddies get away with copying Council PCNs and Police FPNs (chequered border, scales of justice, copied font/wording/format from a real Council PCN for instance).

    Can you explain why you should be able to pass of an invoice as a ticket from a real authority? Do you think it was funny that 70% of people on that Watchdog programme who were asked, thought that the private ticket was the ‘real’ one? It was shocking.

    Retirement beckons for you Trev, and the Government NEED to get clamping banned before we become the laughing stock of the World when we host the Olympics and you lot come crawling out of the woodwork and – if not banned by then – proceed to clamp anything with wheels on.

    The whole industry is shameful.

  27. Trev, you are a dinosaur of a soon bygone age, no longer will your ilk be able to scam people out of money for simple mistakes, I can see another close friend of yours is doing porridge now, soon others will join your mate!

    Clamping is demanding money with menaces, a simple angle grinder will remove your pathetic clamp on private property, it’s bye bye scammers soon!

  28. PRIVATE PARKING TICKETS – DON’T PAY!
    IT IS NOT A FINE! YOU HAVE DONE NOTHING ILLEGAL!

    This is an information page for the thousands of people who receive “tickets” from private companies in the UK ever day at supermarkets, retail parks, and in any other privately-owned carpark.

    We are NOT encouraging anybody to openly flout parking restrictions on private land, or to refuse to pay reasonable charges for parking. Landowners have a right to make reasonable charges for the use of their land.

    For advice specific to your case, you should visit the forums at http://forums.pepipoo.com or http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/parking-traffic-offences.

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.php?f=163

    1. What you should know about these companies

    It is important to remember that private parking companies (or PPCs as they are often called) have NO OFFICIAL POWERS – that’s right, none at all! They give out their “tickets” on the basis that you have seen the signs in their car park and that you have therefore agreed to a contract obliging you to pay a certain sum of money.

    2. What happens to people who don’t pay?

    In 99.9% of cases, absolutely NOTHING! The company pays the DVLA £2.50 to get your address, and then sends lots of threatening letters. In the main, these letters can be safely IGNORED. The only way the company can actually force you to pay is by taking you to the small claims court, which costs them even more money. And they are by no means guaranteed to win! And they practically never do.

    The two main reasons for this (among others) are the following:

    – Only the person DRIVING the car could ever have agreed to any such parking contract. The company can only get the Registered Keeper’s address from the DVLA: you don’t have to tell them who was driving.

    -Many of these charges are so extortionately high that they constitute a penalty, which is unenforceable in a consumer contract.

    3. Can they affect my credit rating?

    NO! The only way your credit rating could be affected by ignoring private parking companies is if you were taken to court, lost, and then still refused to pay. But they will not take you to court.

    IN SHORT

    The vast majority of the time, you can safely IGNORE tickets from private parking companies, they are not official fines.

    The vast majority of the time, you can safely IGNORE the threatening letters, including those from debt collection agencies.

    You DO NOT have to pay a penny of your hard-earned money to these companies. Remember that the chances of being taken to court are very slim indeed.

    DO NOT IGNORE COURT PAPERS!
    If you receive real court papers from a private parking company (very rare) then you should go to http://forums.pepipoo.com or http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/parking-traffic-offences for help defending the claim. Do not be afraid to sign up and ask questions regarding any paperwork you are not sure about.

    Don’t believe the above? Watch a solicitor on Watchdog advising you what to do with the scam invoices.

    THEY ARE NOT FINES

    Only the Police, Courts or Council’s can fine you. NOT a private company, please remember that.

  29. What’s clamping? Is is some fetish that is peculiar to the English?

  30. I am afraid that the Private Parking Industry has proven itself a charter of deceit, thuggery and a law unto itself. No last minute, collective wailing from its henchmen can save it.
    My MP is fully up to speed on how it has operated and only the most self interested will oppose this abolition. Daily, we see evidence of the creeping malaise of these outfits into supermarkets, retail parks, small shopping areas and more. They still continue to develop ever more made up infringements to hound and harass ordinary law abiding people.
    I shudder to think that clamping would continue to follow into these areas.
    Fortunately, you cooked your own goose and we are soon to be free of these idiots.

  31. There is a system in Scotland with no clamping. Works perfectly well.

    The clamping industry has shown, irrespective of whatever guidelines and rules that regulate it that it cannot be trusted. The drivel from “Trevor” on here is simply an attempt to justify the unjustifiable. I have no doubt if clamping was allowed to continue under these guidelines the rogues would carry on extorting and the Police would be powerless to act “private land, civil matter sir”.

    If a car is parked on private land and it should not be and the landowner wants it moved how on earth does clamping it solve the problem.

    It is tantamount to extortion.

  32. Trevor,

    Go and hang up your clamps. You’ve had a good innings mugging the public. Face the facts you and your thugs are finished.

    You cannot regulate racketeering. Private wheel-clamping has been outlawed in Scotland since 1992 – I think most right thinking people would agree that’s enough of trial.

    Ian

  33. New legislation is not required, just need the police and the CPS to interpret the existing legislation correctly and successfully prosecute a few clampers for blackmail.

  34. Sorry, but legislation is exactly what is required and a ban is exactly what is required.

    This is an industry that has proved it cannot self-regulate.

    Now we are heading towards a ban the activities of clampers is getting worse. The rogue clampers, and do not imagine for one moment there are only a small minority of them, are clamping without fear and extorting.

    Many clamping companies have unpaid CCJ’s where they have been sued. These are ignored.

    There is a ban on clamping in Scotland. The system works perfectly well there.

    We do not need wheel clamping in the rest of the UK.

  35. trevor, trevor, trevor….

    I can sense your fear. your ‘charter’ is ill-thought out, badly worded and has all the appearance of a ‘last throw of the dice’.

    in the eyes of the motoring public there is no such thing as a respectable clamping firm. your ‘industry’ is widely perceived as a motley bunch of thuggish chancers extorting cash with menaces from the unsuspecting.

    there’s more than a whiff of desperation in your posts; I hope lynne featherstone can smell it.

  36. Martin Kinsella makes a very good point. The current uncertainty of when the law will be changed is making the wheel-clampers ever more predatory. Like greedy deckchair attendants on the Titanic they are making hay while the sun shines. They are adding tow allocation charges and other extras to rob even more. The old and the vunerable are the worse affected – women in particular. I know of one woman who was 8 months pregnant being frogmarched half a mile to a cash point to pay the robber. They will laugh in your face at the threat of legal action – they collect CCJ’s like stamps. One essex mob had 27 CCJ’s!

  37. No way: clampers were given a chance to self-regulate via the SIA, and it was cynically used as a shield for real thieves and blackmailers to fleece people. Such a body can never be more than a Thieves Guild because the people most interested in it are the industry themeselved. You only have to look at the areas the SIA is alowed to rule-on to see this. It will investigate everything nobody cares about, and nothing anyone does: such as the amount charged or the validity of the permission of the clamper to operate there.

    Add in hiding behind PO Boxes, and liquidating and restarting the companies, to avoid paying CCJs. To think the outrageous idea of seizing another citizen’s property can be regulated, when the civil courts are already powerless to enforce the law against clampers, is a joke.

  38. Freedom Bill ignores flat residents’ concerns over car clamping ban

    The Federation of Private Residents’ Associations (FPRA), which represents flat owners in England and Wales, is currently lobbying Home Office Minister Lynne Featherstone MP to think again about her proposed ban on clamping cars on private property, as it will cause major problems for ordinary residents living in blocks of flats. The Home Office has so far ignored the issues raised; preferring instead to rely on bland standardized statements. The car clamping ban is to be included in the Coalition’s Freedom Bill expected to be published soon.

    Lynne Featherstone’s knee-jerk proposal to ban wheel clamping may not be the populist measure she anticipated. She has failed to appreciate that thousands of ordinary residents living in blocks of flats with car parking spaces are victims of illegal car parking. And as anyone involved in the management of parking knows, the only serious deterrent to illegal parking is the threat of clamping. The issuing of penalty tickets is not an effective deterrent because they are very difficult to enforce, as highlighted by BBC Watchdog.

    Lynne Featherstone says that landowners can erect barriers around their property to control illegal parking. This might be fine for well-heeled companies, the landed gentry and government departments, but it displays a dismal ignorance of how this can be achieved in blocks of flats.

    The FPRA have pointed out to the Home Office that

    1. Residents and leaseholders of blocks of flats may not be able to install barriers because the terms of the lease will not allow them;

    2. If the lease does allow or if it is amended to allow (a very complicated and costly process) the installation of barriers, the cost of installing and maintaining them will fall on the ordinary leaseholder, which includes pensioners and the not-so-well-off. Will the government contribute to this cost?

    3. Barriers are restrictive and inconvenient to residents, visitors and trade vehicles interfering with the free movement in and out of where they live, work or visit.

    FPRA say,

    ‘Lynne Featherstone’s understanding of car clamping is depressingly naive. She seems to just think that it’s a black and white issue of drivers as victims, when in fact victims are also residents whose lives are plagued by illegally parked cars. She naively thinks ‘landowners’ can just erect barriers, having no understanding that ‘landowners’ also includes ordinary people – leaseholders – in blocks of flats who could be forced to pay for the installation and management of barriers, if the lease allows it. And most likely the lease will not allow it, in which case there is little that those residents can do to effectively keep out unwanted cars. This will bring misery to a lot of people’

    The FPRA argues that the real problem is rogue car clampers, and the solution is to regulate the system, not ban the practice. Therefore the FPRA is calling on the Home Office to work with us to come up with proposals to provide robust regulation of the wheel clamping industry, and avoid this rash and ill-conceived piece of legislation.

  39. Bill,

    What you say must does not make sense. You might be surprised to learn that people in Scotland also reside in flats. As you will be well aware private wheel-clamping has been unlawful in Scotland since 1992 as it is akin to extortion. There has not been the issues that you suggest.

    Instead of Management Co’s taking a percentage of the extortion they might have to to actually do some managing for a change with regard to the planning of the controlled parking in the developments.

    You cannot regulate a racket. You and your bunch of cronies should hang up your clamps now. Perhaps you’ll move into some other lucrative activity such as fly tipping for example.

    There should be no appeasement for these thugs.

  40. I am fed up with people on here who keep mentioning Scotlands outlaw of clamping as not being a problem. There is a huge difference between what happens in Scotland and what Lynne Featherstone is proposing will happen in England and Wales.
    Yes, in Scotland wheel clamping is illegal but the landowner is given the right to block vehicles in and to tow them away with the cost going to the vehicles owner.
    What Lynne Featherstone is proposing is ludicrous to the extent that anyone owning land cannot do anything with rogue motorists.
    Please be aware that this means someone can park in your space, ifyou live in a flat, or on your driveway if you live in a house and you will be powerless to do anything about it, if the proposal goes through the way it is at the moment.

  41. The clamping ban is very welcome. However, sadly schedule 4 of the proposed Protection of Freedoms Bill has a big hole in it. It makes registered keepers of vehicles responsible for Parking Charge Notices issued by private companies. Land owners may soon be able to put up notices on land warning ‘tresspassing parkers’ face a parking charge penalty of any amount whatsoever. If the driver refuses to pay, the registered keeper of the vehicle can be pursued through the courts – with no appeals system for the driver or registered keeper of the vehicle. This clearly opens the road to more scammers, much like the clampers. A private profitable company should not be able to force the registered keeper of a vehicle to be responsible for paying a charge arising from an alleged breach of contract. What’s to stop them jotting down random registration numbers and watching the money rolling in? The schedule either needs to be removed entirely or substantial revisions need to be made before it is acceptable.

  42. Since last year in august I have opposed the ban as have many many managing agents and landowners as they have the right to prrotect thei land ny what ever means, the law of the land states from the soil below to the sky above!!! So bt what right does ms featherstone and her cronies have to tell a Land owner what parking enforcement that may have on their land????? They don’t, so like trevor let’s stand up to this, it is wrong it is illegal, it is bad our head of state and the government officials like it if we parked on their land, without consent of which no doubt someone will do when the ban comes into force next year, no they wouldnt, but they can steal from the taxpayer, fiddle the expenses, we then get the ex pira, money laundering, killing, extortion, banged up and released to run the northern irelland government, so here is the justice I that, maybe we the clampers should run for government and rule, and then onto another major issue with featherstones bill, she states that towing is banned in. Scotland, it is not, so doesmthat mean that the ruling is null and void due to major discrepancies, ???.? I have repeatedly asked ms featherstone to go on a live debate with me she won’t, why not ??. After all she is the voice of the
    government and I am Just a worker,, I went live on tv shortly after she announced her ban and I have been contesting it since, but the coalition has no credibility, sorry to say that pm, i used to work closely with your predessors, and I had the utmost respect for the party u til recently.

    Are all you poor persons kept in the dark and unawarenof then intention by managing agentsnand landowners plan to a judicial review of which has been ignored? Are you aware of the governments failure to consult the industry? Are you aware the governments failure to consult the land owner and or its agent properly? No doubt not but this is how ms featherstone conducts her business!

    But their again she is not in power is she.

    I await your comments

  43. Since last year in august I have opposed the ban as have many many managing agents and landowners as they have the right to prrotect thei land ny what ever means, the law of the land states from the soil below to the sky above!!! So bt what right does ms featherstone and her cronies have to tell a Land owner what parking enforcement that may have on their land????? They don’t, so like trevor let’s stand up to this, it is wrong it is illegal, it is bad our head of state and the government officials like it if we parked on their land, without consent of which no doubt someone will do when the ban comes into force next year, no they wouldnt, but they can steal from the taxpayer, fiddle the expenses, we then get the ex pira, money laundering, killing, extortion, banged up and released to run the northern irelland government, so here is the justice I that, maybe we the clampers should run for government and rule, and then onto another major issue with featherstones bill, she states that towing is banned in. Scotland, it is not, so doesmthat mean that the ruling is null and void due to major discrepancies, ???.? I have repeatedly asked ms featherstone to go on a live debate with me she won’t, why not ??. After all she is the voice of the
    government and I am Just a worker,, I went live on tv shortly after she announced her ban and I have been contesting it since, but the coalition has no credibility, sorry to say that pm, i used to work closely with your predessors, and I had the utmost respect for the party u til recently.

    Are all you poor persons kept in the dark anunaware of the intention by managing agentsnand landowners plan to a judicial review of which has been ignored? Are you aware of the governments failure to consult the industry? Are you aware the governments failure to consult the land owner and or its agent properly? No doubt not but this is how ms featherstone conducts her business!

    But their again she is not in power is she.

    I await your comments

  44. @Clamper Man – you only oppose a ban because you make money out of clamping. As recent news shows, clampers often make money by preying on residents when their permit slips down the dashboard (or you rock the car to make it drop). The only way clampers make money is by misleading with poor signs in poor locations hidden by trees and so on, decoy vehicles parked up to make it look like it is safe to park, waiting for someone to park up and *then* erecting a sign, and so on. People generally do not park where they see signs saying the land is private property, or there are warnings of fines and clamping, despite popular opinion of clampers – who usually have a shaven head, beer belly, criminal record, and IQ of under 70.

    If land owners spent as much money on a barrier system as they do for burglar alarms, then there would be no problems. Lets face it, if you can afford to own land, you can afford a barrier/gate etc. If you can not afford one sell up your land quick before you go bankrupt. Clamping is just the cheap and lazy solution to a problem.

  45. Anewman is correct, and if the Act is enacted as it stands it is a Thieves charter, how on earth could our elected intelligent representatives have been so naive? These thieves and cheats will put up tiny signs (whats new there?) Parking Fee £500 and laugh all the way to the bank when they pursue the registered keeper.

    What safeguards are going to be in the legislation to keep any parking “ticket” charges reasonable? Who is going to enforce the appeals process? The current mockery of appealing to a clamping company shows what a joke that is.

    This seems to have been a good idea, that is now hijacked for the interests of the big business in the parking industry.

    Someone REALLY didn’t think this idea through! Make the RK responsible without safeguards is a recipe for disaster.

  46. I have read the bill, and it does not ban removing a vehicle from your land. It only bans refusing to give it back again until a ransom is paid. Everything the BPA and other trade lobbyists are saying is false.

  47. Re a Newman,

    Get a grip, not everyone puts up small signs, charges excessive fees, etc etc etc, yet again you lot on hear just like ms featherstone only hear what you want to hear, what about a live tv debate??. No chance because the featherstone gang have not got a clue, they would lose face and they know it, aaa for installing barriers, you may have to getl planning permission of which may not be appropriate! A lot of my clients already have barriers gates etc, but that does not prevent anyone from actually parking, anyone can let anyone in, for example you pop in the in the code the gate or barrier opens, that easy, so where is the deterrent in that I ask you???, I have seen it time and time again, clamping is aimed at those who fail to park correctly, the ignorant motorists will always park where and when he or she wants as it is easier than having to pay to park, that is until they get caught and shout out aloud, I got clamped, well whose fault would that be ??? The person who read the signs, ignored the signs and parked or the clamper for clamping the car??.

    You are never going to please everyone, what about the CCTV cars working for the councils that are enforcing illegally, no signs no training, no qualifications, no orders allowing them to do such, etc etc, I know because I’ve been on an operation to exploit them but that’s ok because it is the council and the money in turn ends up in the governments pocket, but that’s illegal and wrong but it’s ok because it helping to pay for the fat cat wages like ms featherstone’s, who won’t reply or respond to anything constructive.

    Get a life because those who wanted the ban may now get it but as I said before wait till the prices go up to compensate for clamping as they will and then the registered keeper will be liable, more court cases, more costs to you the end user.

    Anyway as I said the document that the right hon MP publicised clearly says in scotland there is a ban on clamping and towing away, there is not a ban on towing away she couldn’t even get that right, so I presume like a court case wrongful evidence, it should be thrown out, but will it?

    It would be nice to hear of constructive comments on here not the usual jumbo jumbo rubbish from the same old people pretending to someone else.

    Good day to you all.

  48. Re: A Newman

    Why are you hiding under an alias? I laugh out loud at your comments. Do you really think that all landowners have large amounts of money? People buy land so they have an asset so your money, hopefully, is put towards a future not paying rent which is effectively dead money. Parking your car and purchasing a ticket to park there is the same as rent money (you’re buying that space for a period of time). It’s the same as a landlord owning property and renting out appartments. Why should a landowner not make money out of their land?